On Costumes, Hip Hop & His Most Surprising Cheddar: 5 Questions with Cheddar Author Gordon Edgar

Gordon sharing the aged cheddar love at Grafton, photo by Shelburne Farms

A strong believer that the world needs humor along with its cheese and booze, I'm a big fan of Gordon Edgar's books. They're cultural and well-researched, super interesting, and funny. And Gordon himself is pretty awesome too. In honor of the publication of his second book, Cheddar: A Journey to the Heart of America's Most Iconic Cheese, Gordon agreed to an interview. Below I ask him about hip hop's use of cheese in lyrics, cheese parties and costumes, and his favorite pairings (spoiler- a piece of cheese and his face).

I present you with 5 Questions with Gordan Edgar. Thank you, Gordon!

The cheese board from our tasting. I may have slightly misplaced our notes from that night after the wine was unleashed but I can tell you that we loved fig jam with English traditional versions.

1. You've been all over the country promoting, with events that included driving around Wisconsin in a school bus to holding vertical tastings of chedar to see how it ages. In what region have you felt the most cheddar enthusiasm and did it involve costumes?

The cheddar bus trip was an amazing experience. Jeanne Carpenter organized it and it brought out cheddar lovers from all over the place. We started at Larry’s Market and then got to go on tours at Henning’s, LaClare, and Widmer’s – three of my favorite places to go in Wisconsin – and then I blah blah’d at folks between stops. CCP Elizabeth Nerud even recited an impromptu cheese poem at the end of the night while we rolled back to Milwaukee.

Vermont was pretty incredible too. Three events in 24 hours! Grafton, Provisions, Shelburne Farms, Cabot and Jasper Hill all collaborated to help make it happen. I did a talk at University of Vermont where I was honored by Professor Paul Kindstedt showing up. Then almost killed myself – as Californians driving in Vermont black ice conditions are wont to do – driving to Provisions to talk with about almost 100 cheese professionals. As soon as that was done I went to Brattleboro for a cheddar

party were I read a poem with local journalist and ex-monger Wendy Levy that likely had not been read aloud for 125 years or so. Costumes would have been the only thing that could have made that better, I wish I had talked to you beforehand.

The last time costumes and cheddar came into play historically that I know of was in 1951, the cheddar centennial in Rome, New York that commemorated the 100 year anniversary of America’s first cheddar factory. Cheese dignitaries came in from across country and the Rome (New York) Theater Guild produced a play about the life of Jesse Williams, “Father of Cheese Factories.” Alas, there was no revival of the performance for the 150 year anniversary. Let’s get ready for 2051, people!

2. What is your top favorite cheddar combo of all time? Feel free to say butter, bread and a pan, or go grand. 

Yeah, it really is piece of cheddar and my face. I had a co-worker who used to just come over to the cheese counter during her break, buy a ¼ lb of cheddar, unwrap it, and just start chomping for lunch every day. I was in awe the first time I saw that and still think it is the ultimate way to enjoy a cheese.

If I am going to do cheddar for dinner, I’d add tart apples, dark honey, and sourdough bread or rustic crackers. For cooking, a medium sharp cheddar along with a little brie and fridge odds and ends for mac and cheese. Mmmmmmm.

3. You know a lot about cheddar. Does the hip hop world adopting the word "cheese," or more often "cheddar" as a euphemism for money make since to you? Why or don't you think "cheddar" in particular fits? Would chevre work too?

I actually wrote about this for Cheddar, but cut that section because -- while I can claim great knowledge and nuance about punk -- I am more of a tourist to hip hop. In punk, historically speaking, cheese references are usually about the government cheese that was available during the ‘80s at a time when there was a major surplus of milk and dairy farmers were getting paid off to cull their herds and get out of the milk business. I have heard that the hip hop use of “cheddar” has the same roots, but I couldn’t swear that’s true.

There is a historic use of staple, common food as a stand-in for money: dough, bread, lettuce, etc. That’s why “cheddar” works in this context but chevre doesn’t right now. It’s still exotic to most people. So, until there’s a bigger hip hop scene in Sonoma or Napa counties, or goat cheese mainstreams to urban areas, chevre would probably be used to signify something else.

4. You've tasted a lot of cheese in your history of cheesemongering and writing. While tasting for this book, which cheddar surprised you the most and why?

One that surprised me after I wrote the book I was shocked by the Red Barn Weis Heritage Cheddar from Wisconsin. Jeanne Carpenter of Cheese Underground arranged a bus trip of three Wisconsin cheesemakers and I read from my book between stops [side note from Kirstin, Jeanne, you rock]. Then we did a class together at Metcalfe’s Market in Madison. I had never tasted this cheese until we were doing the class and I fell in love immediately.

When researching Cheddar, I was trying to track down who made the last clothbound cheddar in America before it went extinct so I could see how many years this country had to do without. Sid Cook of Carr Valley pointed out to me that it wasn’t that clothbound cheese went extinct, it was the cave-aging that did. Sid, and a few other producers, were still cloth-wrapping cheese but aging them in wax.

The Weis Heritage Cheddar is this style and one of the best and most distinctive cheddars made in this country. All the milk comes from family-owned and operated farms of under 70 cows and the dairies are all certified humane. Plus, as far as I can tell, Red Barn Family Farms make the last raw milk cheddar in Wisconsin.

5. Lastly, if your last, multi-coursed, meal on planet earth had to be made entirely of Cheddar, what would you eat? 

Appetizer: Cheese crisps made of Rumiano mild cheddar topped with two year Grafton Cheddar medallions.

Main: Center cut of Quicke’s two year vintage clothbound cheddar served over two year Widmer spears and an extra sharp Tillamook cheddar dipping sauce on the side.

Dessert: Wedges of sweet-sharp Prairie Breeze.

This would be pretty intense, but now that I’ve written it down, I kind of want to try it.

Thank you again, Gordon! There is much to be said for a man who enjoys a center cut.

Bohemian Creamery- An Interview with Lisa Gottreich

This interview with Bohemian Creamery kicks off a series that I'm very excited about here on It's Not You, It's Brie. Called, (well.... I'm a little behind on this part, recs are welcome!...) the series will follow and detail the lives of those involved in the varied and vast cheese world. I'll interview cheesemakers, cheesemongers, educators, distributers, importers, writers, and more, to give behind the scenes look at those that make, house, peddle, and love our cheese and make our fermented world happen. It will share insights to how our cheese comes to be, gets from the farm to our table, and maybe even provide food for thought for those thinking about entering the cheese world themselves. I'm going to focus entirely on those making or working with American cheese for the month of October because... it's American Cheese Month, after all.

Lisa Gottreich is my first interviewee. The cheesemaker for Bohemian Creamery , Lisa is located in Sebastopol, California, land of grapes, apples, and.. an incredibly inventive cheesemaker. You can also read about her Capronico in my book. I think you'll enjoy reading Lisa's thorough and thoughtful answers. Photos were supplied by Gottreich.

Your resume includes cheesemaker, Italian instructor, and writer. How do these passions play into each other and inspire your main career as cheesemaker?

I am basically unemployable after years of working on my own terms. My last pay-check job really ushered in the creation of the creamery. I worked for a large multi-county oncology practice. It was a disaster on my psyche. Sad to see the death and dying, which I expected to be profoundly touched by, but found myself instead embattled every day by the ins and outs of group dynamics, politics, and the dueling wastefulness and dearth of heath care policy. And so the writer-goat-herder (I had goats and made cheese at home for many years before I ventured into commercial production) kind of hung up the towel. Helped along by a mid-life crisis husband who was backing out on our 18 year marriage. The thread here is really just a question of disposition. I am idealistic and head strong (ok, stubborn), and so the rushing waters run a course more solitary and self-determined.

Bohemian Creamery makes cheese with all the milks under the California sun- goat, cow, sheep, and buffalo. From whom do you source all these milks, what inspired such a broad milk range, and do foresee keeping your own animals for milk in the future (or do you now?)?

I absolutely love goats and have had them around for almost the past two decades. In fact, cheese-making is probably my rationalization for having goats. That being said, I also buy my milk. To run a dairy that would produce the amount of milk I consume would be a full time occupation in itself. Yet I am at an awkward size ---too large to produce enough with my own herd and too small to be able to take advantage of any economy of scale. I will always have my goat herd, and I will continue to source my milks from the wonderful dairies of Sonoma County.

To give people an idea of what happens at Bohemian Creamery, describe a typical work day for you. 

I've been jumping on my bike lately and biking with my dog up to the creamery, enjoying the cooler autumn air and feeling sick of needlessly regurgitating spent fuel. SO that happens around 6:00 am. I get up the creamery, look out over the santa rosa laguna and Mt St Helena and sigh. Push troubles to the side, temporarily. GO into the creamery, listen to NPR and start my day which consists of either jumping into the milk truck to pick up milk, turn on NPR until the news swings back then turn on Pandora, make cheese, do affinage, pack and wrap orders, clean. Clean and clean. I don't think people realize how little time cheese makers spend actually making cheese compared to their gargantuan lifetime of cleaning. Then the afternoon I dedicate to the goats, feeding, hoof trimming, mandatory petting.

What would you say is the most exciting cheese that you make, for you? For some, it might be your fresh goat, bloomy-rinded Bodacious cheese- one of my favorite quotes of yours from the LA Times article I wrote that featured Bodacious was- “it’s modeled after a boob, though it’s not always the most thrilling boob, the mold is food grade, stainless steel.” For others it might be your Bo-Peep, a sheep-goat blend washed with Russian River’s Consecration beer. But I know you have a new one you’re working on too. What’s the first cheese you know you’ll be looking forward to making or tending most after coming back from your upcoming two-week writer’s retreat?

I really like working with the water buffalo milk. It's so different from anything I've ever touched. It's hard to separate the animal from the product and those bufale are really like nothing I've ever faced down before...I have roped and cut cattle, herded goats, kept sheep. But these girls, they are like staring into the eye of a whale...they penetrate you. I lived for years in Italy and for me it is very very special to be able to have this milk. That being said, I am working on a crazy idea for a cheese...sort of a secret of this point, but I like inventing. Like my cowabunga, a fresh lactic cow cheese I make then stuff with cajeta I make from my goat's milk. So when I get back from my residency, I am going to set to work on the newest crazy combo...

Who and what is inspiring you at the moment?

I am inspired by the people I get to work with. I have two wonderful women who work with me and I really respect and cherish their input. We are working together to build out the creamery into an agrotourism destination where people can sit back and dive into the incredible view, eat cheese, bread cheese plates, make a cheese pizza, hang with the goats, see cheese being made, maybe also drink a little wine. I think that the more people taste and understand cheese as a living entity that, like us, is born, throws its colors, then fades, concepts of consistency will gain a more holistic context.

Thank you so much for your time, Lisa!

Any ideas for the name of the series welcome in the comments section!